Posts by Chris Tann

24

Emblem Takers Mentally Unstable?

by Cold Steel in

onthewayout wrote: of course, for quite awhile (and probably still), congregations have been viewing any relatively young (maybe under 50 or even 60) partakers as mentally unstable and watchtower ignores such people anyway and says they must listen to the elders.

is this correct?

ever since the emblem-takers were given emeritus status as members of the faithful and discreet slave, have they been relegated to standard membership?

Chris Tann

Does anyone know of a partaker who does so continuously but has doubts?

16

"The governing body at that time..."

by OneEyedJoe in

so i'm listening to the regional manager give his mid week talk and he's going over acts 15 where they're dealing with the issues that arrose from the jewish christians wanting the gentile christians to adhear too the mosaic law, so some of the apostles gathered to hash it out.

it struck me, though, that he kept using the phrase "the governing body at that time" to describe the apostles and older men who decided on the matter.

once he even slipped up and said apostles, then corrected it to the gb.. i'm thinking that they've actually gone so far as to put it in his outline to make sure its beaten into the r/f that the gb's power is somehow based in scripture.

Chris Tann

The refering to the Apostles to a governing body has been prominent in recent articles. It is conditioning,or brain washing at it's best. It is funny,if you tell a faithful witness that "governing body" is not found in scripture they usually respond with a -"really?". When they say that the words trinity or rapture are not found in the bible,I like to say "neither is the term governing body. So according to their logic we should not believe in it.

10

If elders are responsible for the teaching, the flock---

by prologos in

can you look at any of them and think, say: you taught:-- " the f&ds , the "anointed" existing since pentecost" ---you taught:.

the non-overlapping generation of 1914 ---.

the local drive to get it done before 1975*--.

Chris Tann

yes. first the calling ended in 1935,then not too long ago the number of partakers was going up. A Watchtower said that these ones are depressed or mental. then when they saw a trend in increase of partakers a Watchtower said Jah is "evidently" saving some to be annointed for the very end to make sure there will be enough on hand for GT. they just keep making stuff up when their long held belief s go down hill. this is not providing healthy food at the right time. No one should feel bad for deciding to not follow this organization. God could not hold one accountable for not believing this stuff.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

Chris Tann

Cofty: excellent letter to the branch. I came to the exact same conclusion six years ago when I decided to think for myself. I agree with everything you pointed out. This organization is an entity of itself. Even if those who read your letter can see the truths in it, they are too in deep to get out

Too much at stake!

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

Chris Tann

Data Dog: did they change this teaching? Because last time I knew,the "rest of the dead" were the Armagedon survivors who gradually come to life throughout the millennium,then when they are perfect they are said to come to life in that sense. This doctrine though,is full of flaws.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

Chris Tann

Excellent points island man. Parousia was used for the ARRIVAL of a dignitary and his subsequent visit. It seems the Jews believed the Messiahs presence(at least the Apostles) was a signifigant arrival and then changes insued because of said arrival. Matt.24 does use parosia and comming interchangeably-vs.30,36,37,42,44,50.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

Chris Tann

They could have been caught up around 70 c.e.. These verses are definitely speaking of a changing of corrupt mortal humans to incorrupt immortal humans. Then they are speedily snatched up to the spirit realm with Christ. Not modern at all,but plain as the nose on your face,with all due respect.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

Chris Tann

You are quite right leaving_quietly,however notice in Corinthians 51,52 Paul is speaking of two different groups. Paul is addressing Christians in Corinth who are, of course,alive. He says of them and himself, that they all wont fall alseep,or die,but instead of dieing and being resurrected they will be changed. Notice he says changed,not ressurected.

He goes on to say that at the last trumpet the dead will be raised up,then he says "and we" ,that is the living of verse 51, will be changed. Verse 53 says "for (or because) this which is corruptible must PUT ON incorruption". Yes,this is how the living faithfuls are changed, by putting on incorruption. This is what the rapture is.

Notice how this also harmonizes with 1 Thess.4 15-17. Those who are alive at Christ Presence will not precede,or go before the dead. Vs. 16 says the dead in Christ will rise first,then, he says,addressing the very much alive congregation,that they,the living who are surviving(the greek can also mean left around) will be caught away. Or as the Greek can imply: being snatched up,;not resurrected.

Yes,Paul was speaking to and about living Christians of his time. They expected Christ's presence to occur soon in their time,not some 2,000 years later to those who die. The scriptures are very clear that the rapture,or if you prefer snatching up,is real.

112

Scientists Should Not Dismiss Genesis So Quickly

by Chris Tann in

nasa discovery proves the bible scientifically accurate.

the debate.

for decades there has been a long standing debate between science and religion as to the validity of the biblical genesis account of creation.

Chris Tann

Apognophos: very good replies. What would you say about the Hebrew word chug as describing the earth? This word denotes a sphere not a circle,which could still be flat. Also in its reference to God hanging the earth upon nothing. Can one really say this is mere coincidence?

112

Scientists Should Not Dismiss Genesis So Quickly

by Chris Tann in

nasa discovery proves the bible scientifically accurate.

the debate.

for decades there has been a long standing debate between science and religion as to the validity of the biblical genesis account of creation.

Chris Tann

Thanks Shana. The word firmament was derived from the Septuagint translation. These Jews were instructed by the Pharoah of Egypt to make a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures. The Egyptians believed in this hard dome concept,so the translators choose a word to fit their belief. However,the original Hebrew word means expanse or to flatten out,it does not denote a hardness.

Also, the serpent was later identified as Satan, the rebellious spirit, in Revelation. He talked to Eve through the serpent.

Of course there would be other ancient religious traditions thar are similar to the Genesis account. Even dating before Genesis. Orally,this true account would first be passed along within family circles. As populations grew, it would spread, become embellished and become the foundational belief of many different cultures. This happened with the flood as well.

Usually, if a story is prominent in many various cultures around the world for several centuries, it has truth to it. Although it may have been added to or taken away from through it all.